NRD 2024: Propuestas, ideas y sugerencias

[Super7]

Another thought for next year.

During the Mexican GP my race was destroyed by another driver making an obvious illegal move (I have not reported this to the stewards). I was moving up to P6 and and had a good tyre strategy that could have ended in a higher position that that. However, due to getting car damage from another driver, through no fault of mine, I had no option but to end the race due to the damage. As a result, I lost the points I could have had, and also lost the chance of regaining 2 licence points, therefore it ends up being a double-penalty. In this situation is it fair to not regain licence points? It was beyond 50% race distance, so maybe that could be a criteria for regaining those points. Even regaining 1 point would be better than what we have at the moment. I would rather the situation had not happened, and I did not report it as it changes nothing for me, only maybe for the other driver (and that changes nothing for me either). However, had we got a different view on when licence points are redeemed I would have reported it. I'm not saying that we should get licence points back after an incident at the race start, or in the first few laps, but after 28 good laps is this really fair?

Please consider my comments, its not the first time this has happened to me.

Regards,

Gray (Super7)

[rigodon]

Hola a todos. Normalmente dejamos un tiempo para que haya debate en estos hilos de sugerencias antes de escribir ninguna respuesta por parte de la organización. Hay buenas ideas en este hilo, ideas sobre las que tenemos que pensar, probablemente entre los meses de enero y febrero, antes de que comience el campeonato 2024. Pero sí me gustaría explicar algunas cosas que no queremos hacer:

• No queremos poner pesos en los coches para igualar artificialmente la parrilla. Entiendo que se haga en carreras largas tipo resistencia para intentar que haya emoción al final de una carrera de 24 horas, pero en nuestro caso, en carreras cortas, no es justo que alguien que te saca 1,5 seg por ser mejor piloto pierda esa ventaja de manera artificial. Si es cierto que podemos hacer más para intentar que circule la información técnica del coche y que los setups estén un poco más igualados. De todas formas, he dicho esto 1000 veces, pero lo voy a repetir: si pensáis que otro piloto os saca 2 segundos por vuelta sólo por el setup, estáis equivocados.
• No existe la solución perfecta para el calendario. Es IMPOSIBLE, repito, IMPOSIBLE satisfacer a todo el mundo. Sobre este tema os diré que el equipo de comisarios tiene prácticamente decidido el calendario 2024 y lo publicaremos mañana, pero puedo adelantar que no incluirá circuitos que no estén en el calendario 2024.

[Ricardo Ferreira]

Hola a todos. Normalmente dejamos un tiempo para que haya debate en estos hilos de sugerencias antes de escribir ninguna respuesta por parte de la organización. Hay buenas ideas en este hilo, ideas sobre las que tenemos que pensar, probablemente entre los meses de enero y febrero, antes de que comience el campeonato 2024. Pero sí me gustaría explicar algunas cosas que no queremos hacer:

• No queremos poner pesos en los coches para igualar artificialmente la parrilla. Entiendo que se haga en carreras largas tipo resistencia para intentar que haya emoción al final de una carrera de 24 horas, pero en nuestro caso, en carreras cortas, no es justo que alguien que te saca 1,5 seg por ser mejor piloto pierda esa ventaja de manera artificial. Si es cierto que podemos hacer más para intentar que circule la información técnica del coche y que los setups estén un poco más igualados. De todas formas, he dicho esto 1000 veces, pero lo voy a repetir: si pensáis que otro piloto os saca 2 segundos por vuelta sólo por el setup, estáis equivocados.
• No existe la solución perfecta para el calendario. Es IMPOSIBLE, repito, IMPOSIBLE satisfacer a todo el mundo. Sobre este tema os diré que el equipo de comisarios tiene prácticamente decidido el calendario 2024 y lo publicaremos mañana, pero puedo adelantar que no incluirá circuitos que no estén en el calendario 2024.

ye I agreed with first part.

I don't agree with the second part. Like I said if they choose in F1 don't mean is a good track. Like we all know some tracks only are in F1 just because money, but from that part but i-++6t is what it is.

Personally and like i already said, pretty sure I will not do all long championship like last one.
Otherwise this goes from a diversion to an obligation, and that is why I close a community and I was 1,5half without racing. Obligation I already have the damn job
The last few races were already a sacrifice.

[rigodon]

Hola a todos. Normalmente dejamos un tiempo para que haya debate en estos hilos de sugerencias antes de escribir ninguna respuesta por parte de la organización. Hay buenas ideas en este hilo, ideas sobre las que tenemos que pensar, probablemente entre los meses de enero y febrero, antes de que comience el campeonato 2024. Pero sí me gustaría explicar algunas cosas que no queremos hacer:

• No queremos poner pesos en los coches para igualar artificialmente la parrilla. Entiendo que se haga en carreras largas tipo resistencia para intentar que haya emoción al final de una carrera de 24 horas, pero en nuestro caso, en carreras cortas, no es justo que alguien que te saca 1,5 seg por ser mejor piloto pierda esa ventaja de manera artificial. Si es cierto que podemos hacer más para intentar que circule la información técnica del coche y que los setups estén un poco más igualados. De todas formas, he dicho esto 1000 veces, pero lo voy a repetir: si pensáis que otro piloto os saca 2 segundos por vuelta sólo por el setup, estáis equivocados.
• No existe la solución perfecta para el calendario. Es IMPOSIBLE, repito, IMPOSIBLE satisfacer a todo el mundo. Sobre este tema os diré que el equipo de comisarios tiene prácticamente decidido el calendario 2024 y lo publicaremos mañana, pero puedo adelantar que no incluirá circuitos que no estén en el calendario 2024.

ye I agreed with first part.

I don't agree with the second part. Like I said if they choose in F1 don't mean is a good track. Like we all know some tracks only are in F1 just because money, but from that part but i-++6t is what it is.

Personally and like i already said, pretty sure I will not do all long championship like last one.
Otherwise this goes from a diversion to an obligation, and that is why I close a community and I was 1,5half without racing. Obligation I already have the damn job
The last few races were already a sacrifice.

I'll give some more explanations tomorrow when we publish the calendar but let me say I know what you think because I read it a lot of times. You know what we think (and I say WE because it's not only my opinion but an agreement of the stewards group) because I've written it a few times: we still think at least 80% of the drivers coming to this league want to do something similar to the thing we all see on TV. Then, If someone doesn't like a track, or think there are too many, it's obviously his decision to miss a few tracks or not.

[Todor Vasilev]

I just tested the new 2024 car today for the first time and I realy like the new battery idea and the car overall. However the only thing I noticed is the way the braking works in relation to the regeneration system. In any hybrid car the electric motor acts as a brake until the battery is fully charged. Once the battery is fully charged then there is nowhere for the electrycity to go anymore so the motor stops working as a brake respectively. This is to protect the battery from overcharging and eventually damaging and even catching fire, explosion whatever. Now what all that should mean for our virtual representaion of this system is that whenever the battery is at 100% capacity, the braking force at the rear axle should signifficantly be affected (reduced). This should cause teh car to slow down slower and will respectively transfer more work to the front brakes because they have to work for longer to slow the car down, which means increase brakes temperatures and wear for both front and rear brakes.
Now if we say that there is a system to monitor and compensate that sudden lost in braking power at the rear by increasing the pressure on the rear brakes then this means that the rear brakes should produce more heat when braking with battery fully charged and wear more.
When I tested the car today I didn't notice any of the two scenarios and I believe this can play a huge role in battery and brakes management if it existed in this mod.
The other thing I was thinking is it would be very interesting after every race, the data from the race results to also shows how much energy each driver regenerated during the race. This can tell a lot about different driving styles and strategies used.

[rigodon]

I just tested the new 2024 car today for the first time and I realy like the new battery idea and the car overall. However the only thing I noticed is the way the braking works in relation to the regeneration system. In any hybrid car the electric motor acts as a brake until the battery is fully charged. Once the battery is fully charged then there is nowhere for the electrycity to go anymore so the motor stops working as a brake respectively. This is to protect the battery from overcharging and eventually damaging and even catching fire, explosion whatever. Now what all that should mean for our virtual representaion of this system is that whenever the battery is at 100% capacity, the braking force at the rear axle should signifficantly be affected (reduced). This should cause teh car to slow down slower and will respectively transfer more work to the front brakes because they have to work for longer to slow the car down, which means increase brakes temperatures and wear for both front and rear brakes.
Now if we say that there is a system to monitor and compensate that sudden lost in braking power at the rear by increasing the pressure on the rear brakes then this means that the rear brakes should produce more heat when braking with battery fully charged and wear more.
When I tested the car today I didn't notice any of the two scenarios and I believe this can play a huge role in battery and brakes management if it existed in this mod.
The other thing I was thinking is it would be very interesting after every race, the data from the race results to also shows how much energy each driver regenerated during the race. This can tell a lot about different driving styles and strategies used.

Ah Todor, you touched a really interesting topic: engine braking in a hybrid car in RF2. First place, let me share a couple of telemetry screenshots:

frenada.jpg (20.9 KiB) Visto 168 veces

frenada2.jpg (19.12 KiB) Visto 168 veces

The 1st one is taken from an out lap, that is battery charged 100%. If you have a look at the electric motor and fuel engine torque numbers under braking, there is engine braking (negative torque) coming from the fuel engine and an insignificant number coming from the electric motor. The 2nd screenshot is taking from braking when battery is less than 100% charged and motor torque is really a significant amount of engine braking. So, when battery is 100% charged, engine braking from the motor is near 0. That creates a problem that is a varying amount of engine braking depending on the battery charge level. In real-life F1 they deal with it with what they call "brake-by-wire", an electronic system that allows you to define a target braking torque no matter you get braking only from the fuel engine or from both the engine and the motor. That way, the driver always knows what to expect. RF2 has a poor and buggy brake-by-wire implementation that is not usable for hybrid cars at this time. And we al know that all efforts from S397 development are centered on Le Mans game and RF2 online, so we're not expecting any physics improvement anytime soon. Then, we decided to deal with it allowing drivers to reduce braking from fuel engine more than it was possible in 2023.

For sure, it would be very interesting to have the amount of energy that every driver regenerated during a race. However, the only number available in telemetry is the battery charge %. Maybe we could do the maths, but it requires some development we can't do at this time. However, we could suggest R2LA developer to show that number in session results same way you can see fuel levels.

EDIT: I'm going to correct myself to say that R2LA shows fuel levels because they are in server-side session result files. RF2 doesn't save that info in result files which means that we'd need to create some solution to capture client side telemetry from drivers' machines to have access to battery charge levels from all drivers. Way too complex I think.

[Javibeza]

Yo tengo la teoría de que el BBW sí que funciona, pero de una manera rudimentaria. Así es como yo creo que funciona (no estoy del todo seguro).

Nuestro motor eléctrico recarga en modo on/off y no gradualmente en función de cuánto pises el freno. Esto hace que cuando la recarga se activa, el par generado sea siempre el mismo.
Durante una frenada, el par que generan los frenos es proporcional a cuánto se pisa el pedal. Por otro lado, nuestro coche tiene activa la opción de BBW que lo que hace es restar al freno el par que genera el motor eléctrico, pero claro, esto sólo es válido mientras el freno esté ejerciendo más par que el motor eléctrico, es decir, al principio de la frenada, cuando se pisa mucho el pedal. Cuando estamos llegando al final de la frenada y tenemos el freno pisado, digamos al 20%, el par del motor eléctrico será superior al que está generando el freno, haciendo el BBW inservible y generando un desequilibrio en la distribución de frenada hacia el tren trasero.

Esto no pasaría si la regeneración fuese proporcional a cuánto se pisa el pedal de freno, en lugar de ser on/off. Y en resumen, yo creo que el bbw sí funciona pero sólo cuando el freno genera mas par que la regeneración.
En la vida real no tengo ni idea de cómo lo hacen, supongo que estará todo perfectamente ajustado para que la frenada esté equilibrada como el piloto quiere, pero nosotros no podemos mejorarlo con las físicas actuales de rf2.

No sé si me habré explicado bien